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 The Grail Games OOC XIV

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Prisma*Illya
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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:15 pm

It really is.

In FSN, he was fairly active, particularly in UBW. In FZ, he just sits on his original golden butt, sipping wine and flirting with Kirei.

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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:17 pm

hey it was that flirting that gave us REJOICE! so at least he did something relevant

i'm actually surprissed that Gil still maintains spot 1 in my top character of fiction
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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:23 pm

I suppose. But a character should have relevance unto himself as well. His only purpose was to seduce Kirei.

Fate/Zero itself is kind of weak just on the fact that it's kind of superfluous. Everything we needed to know about the 4th war is already explained in FSN. In some ways, it does it better with less, like Kirei's flashback portion in HF.

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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:38 pm

the problem with Fate/Zero is that it's nothing special. It has Rider, Caster and Irisviel supporting the ceiling and then everybody else just there.

When Caster dies the shows loses it's shock value

When Irisviel dies the shows loses it's relativenous

When Rider dies the shows loses it's awesomeness


The show is heavily focused on these characters and just leaves the others in limbo, just there as meat for the grinder.

It also doesn't bring any plot twist, it's a linear as it can get. It has a load of problems. Mind you it's not bad, it's just that in comparison it loses in alot of aspects.
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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:37 pm

Well, yes and no. To me, it's done very well, but the problem is its irrelevance.

The main focus is Kiritsugu and Kirei and how they came to be who they are and how it influenced FSN. But FSN already tells us all we need to know about Kirei and Kiritsugu. If anything, F/Z made it lose some of its mystique.

I think the only things it really contributed were insight into the Kirei-Tokiomi-Rin relationship and the Kiristugu-Illya relationship. We never really got a full impression of why Kiritsugu abandoned Illya and how he felt about it, or why exactly Tokiomi gave up Sakura, what his relationship to Rin was, and why Kirei betrayed him.

Caster, while he made for a good antagonist, had no relevance other than being a disc one boss. Waver and Rider had a lot of pathos, but ultimately their story had no bearing whatsoever on the main story.

You are right in that once Irisviel died, the show effectively ended. Anyone who knew FSN already knew what was going to play out, and probably only had any sympathy for Saber out of the remaining four to begin with.

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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:00 pm

Prisma*Illya wrote:
Well, yes and no. To me, it's done very well, but the problem is its irrelevance.

The main focus is Kiritsugu and Kirei and how they came to be who they are and how it influenced FSN. But FSN already tells us all we need to know about Kirei and Kiritsugu. If anything, F/Z made it lose some of its mystique.

I think the only things it really contributed were insight into the Kirei-Tokiomi-Rin relationship and the Kiristugu-Illya relationship. We never really got a full impression of why Kiritsugu abandoned Illya and how he felt about it, or why exactly Tokiomi gave up Sakura, what his relationship to Rin was, and why Kirei betrayed him.

Caster, while he made for a good antagonist, had no relevance other than being a disc one boss. Waver and Rider had a lot of pathos, but ultimately their story had no bearing whatsoever on the main story.

You are right in that once Irisviel died, the show effectively ended. Anyone who knew FSN already knew what was going to play out, and probably only had any sympathy for Saber out of the remaining four to begin with.

then tell me why is it that when you ask someone about FZ the first thing that comes to mind to them is those characters. Heck even I, the first thing that comes to mind is Rider. Yes they have no relevance to the story, but that's exactly FZ's problem, character which have no relevance are more memorable than those who have relevance.
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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:04 pm

Oh, I agree. They are very memorable. I just said, they have the most pathos in the entire story. But their story could be lifted and put into any other Grail War and it wouldn't change anything. They have no relevance to the FSN plot.

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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:13 pm

why you keep bringing up FSN's plot, FZ's plot is differant from FSN's
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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:18 pm

F/Z only exists to flesh out the backstory of FSN.

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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:24 pm

or you could look at it like any other story that ties in with another on
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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:34 pm

A tie-in or spin-off is not the same as a prequel. The prequel, by definition, exists to give backstory to the original. Look at the Hobbit to Lord of the Rings, for instance. Sure, a lot of the material in the Hobbit doesn't have a lot of bearing on LotR, but at its heart it explains Bilbo and the Ring came to be in the Shire. If the story was about Wiggy the Hobbit who had no relation to Frodo and never came across the Ring, it would not be a prequel, regardless of the timeframe.

A tie-in or spin-of, however, has no real requirements concerning the original. As long as it doesn't alter the universe the original takes place in, anything goes.

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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:38 pm

i suppose
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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:42 pm

*glomps*

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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:43 pm

just thinking that i will have to wake up at 6:40 in the morning tomorrow >.>
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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:48 pm

Yeah, welcome to my life.

Well, I was just celebrating that we had such a lengthy discussion of different opinions without blowing up at each other.

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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:50 pm

well i bet you wont only arrive home at 19:00 >.>


? I'm pretty sure that hasn't happen since ages....i think....my memory isnt that good...
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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:52 pm

No, I get home at 17:30 ish.

We haven't been online long enough together to really have such a lengthy conversation, and we haven't really had anything to argue about for a long time. Not since AC really.

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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:54 pm

ahah! so my memory stays true! :<


btw, I'm going to have to writte a story for english mind looking at it for errors afterwards?
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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:57 pm

Indeed.

Yeah, sure, I'll look at it. :0

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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:02 pm

anyway night, i need to sleep
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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:08 pm

Night night.

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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:02 pm

oh sure make me jelly that I can't do conversations

I guess I'm just a sex slave to only be used and thrown back into the closet.



...

Good enough for me.
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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:09 pm

Aww, Gedo. We've had conversations. Sometimes.

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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:14 pm

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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:15 pm

What?

Besides, I've never had an online movie club with anyone else.

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