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 The Grail Games OOC XIV

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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:43 pm

no, she is like that in Fate/Hollow Ataraxia, that is her personality

in FSN, you see her only through Shirou's eyes, of course she's going to look only evil
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Prisma*Illya
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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:55 pm

They show lighter sides to her in F/HA, yes. What's the difference?

A) Her character is already established, so it's okay to explore outside the established boundaries.

B) THERE'S NO DEATH CONTEST. The main tone for FHA is slice of life.

In Fate/Extra, you have no prior image to go with, so all these goofy quirks define what should be a serious character for the most part.

In addition, there is no slice of life tone. You are in a computer cell and must cope with the fact that every week you will be deleting someone from existence, or you yourself will be erased. No exceptions. Those are even higher stakes than FSN, where you can bow out or survive and go to the church. How do you reconcile that tone with the juvenile antics of Nero and Tamamo?

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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:28 pm

if you guys haven't figured out by now

The fate series is just one big fan service
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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:29 pm

urgh forcing me to stop playing just so i can think properly

first things first

what is Medea's legend?

princess that gets forced by a god/goddess to love someone, that someone makes her kill her whole family is various cruel ways, then she is dumped when she's no longer needed and is treated as the villain even though she was the used one.

ok, so we have someone who has every reason to be hateful and be cruel to everyone. still she was a princess at heart and still wishes for a prince in shinning armor to come for her aid. Ok so that Medea Caster. Cruel and ruthless, but when not in war mode is just like any other person you would expect from a high class.


what is Tamamo's legend?

Fox turns into woman, is considered an incredible human both in appearance and intelligence, marries with a lord and has a happy life. Eventually lord gets sick, a exorcist visits the palace and discovers that Tamamo is a fox in disguise, a youkai in other words and put blame on her for the lord's condition. Tamamo escapes but the lord convinced it was her fault sends an army to kill her. Army finds her, kill her but not before she kills them back. In her grave is then a stone which is poisonous to all who come close to it. From here on she is considered the most dangerous demon to have ever existed in japan myth.

Ok so we have something which isn't even human, that's desire was to marry a lord(be for love or self-interest, depends on which version you look for) and then because of a series of unfortunate events is found out and hunted down until death. Although love is a theme in both stories, unlike Medea, Tamamo actively seeked someone while Medea was forced into that role. So Tamamo shows interest about love, check, doesn't give a damn about others to the point that it's disturbing, check.


both have different stories, yes both had someone they loved that denied them at the end, but the circumstances surrounding those events are completely different, it makes more sense for Medea to be crueler and darker, and story is like that. Tamamo on the other hand doesn't need that cause her story isn't about betrayal but rather misunderstanding.


thus you cannot complain about Tamamo for being a love bird, Tamamo story is about seeking love but not getting it. Medea's story uses love as a tool to control her.


Last edited by jorgiguel on Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:30 pm

Gedomaru wrote:
if you guys haven't figured out by now

The fate series is just one big fan service

everything that is a product is fan service
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Prisma*Illya
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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:40 pm

Not everything. It has gotten that way recently.

I don't see anything there to indicate that wanting love means being an airheaded floozy who doesn't care what people think.

The real difference is that FSN took a mature story and handled it maturely. Fate Extra took a mature story and made it a gag.

That's not true. Creating something because you have a story to tell is inspiration. Churning things out long past what is needed to appeal to a crowd and/or milk them for money is fan service.

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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:52 pm

Prisma*Illya wrote:
I don't see anything there to indicate that wanting love means being an airheaded floozy who doesn't care what people think.

why is she a airhead? have you even played the game to say that? have you even seen her dialogues? Is she obsessed? yep. Is she an airheaded? we must have played differant games for you to have that conclution. Nero is the airhead, not Tamamo. In fact Tamamo is constantly sugested as being the brain to the group(which includes Archer), constantly frowning and questioning Nero's inteligence.


Prisma*Illya wrote:
The real difference is that FSN took a mature story and handled it maturely. Fate Extra took a mature story and made it a gag.

FSN and FE work completly differant. First of all FSN is an all out war where innocents can get involved and killed.
FE is a tournament where the participants in it joined out of free will. It's obvious the tone is going to be differant. FSN has no rules, everyone is on edge and defensive. FE has rules which if broken will result in termination of those who break it, of course people are going to be more calm and casual. SPECIALLY servants, war is nothing special for them, a tournament is like vacations for them. You see this through out the tournament, it's never the servants that make you cry, they lost fair and square, they don't care about losing, it's the masters that touch your heart.

Prisma*Illya wrote:
That's not true. Creating something because you have a story to tell is inspiration. Churning things out long past what is needed to appeal to a crowd and/or milk them for money is fan service.

Fan service, means servicing a fan. servicies are more than just boobs and assess
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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:55 pm

it's dumb that i'm defending a servant that isnt even in my top 10 >.>
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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:05 pm

Yes, it is dumb. But whatever.

I know that. For instance, the first Pirate of the Caribbean was made because they had a story to tell. Same with Men in Black. Neither was expected to do well, but they were going to tell it anyway.

But surprise! They did do well. And despite the fact that both movies ended the best possible ways they could have, they screwed over the original work because fans wanted more, and they were brainlessly willing to shell out money for it.

I could have included the first Transformers too, but that was awful to begin with and blatantly played off nostalgia.

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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:08 pm

anyway dont bash on Tamamo, she is well designed, you just havent played the game and thus think she's an airhead

you can bash Nero all you want though, that one is beyond hope
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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:09 pm

And like season 9 & 10 of supernatural.

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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:14 pm

I've seen plenty enough.

Admittedly yes, Gedo. Though just because something is fan service, it doesn't mean it can't be done well or even great. It just usually isn't.

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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:18 pm

I'm proud of you for agreeing.

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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:20 pm

posted
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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:21 pm

You're super, Noin.
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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:23 pm

Prisma*Illya wrote:
I've seen plenty enough.

yes tell me about those adventures through the wiki
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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:38 pm

I'm very reasonable, Gedo.

Thanks, Noin. :0

I watched a lot of clips on YouTube as well, thanks.

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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:42 pm

Too bad. I like 'em crazy.

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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:44 pm

btw illya, what's your top 10 servants?
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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:46 pm

1. Fake Assassin
2. Fate Lancer
3. **** the rest
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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:52 pm

Lol. :P

*pets*

Admittedly, Gedo, the demon plot thread for season 9 (Abaddon vs Crowley, Dean and the Mark of Cain) was quite good.

The angel plot thread though is quite stale. Castiel having to lead the wayward angels against a tyrannical despot in Heaven, and lots of angel factions slaughtering each other. Haven't seen that since... Every season after 5.

FSN Archer, FSN Caster, FSN Lancer, FSN Rider, FZ Lancer, Semiramis, Shakespeare, FSN Saber, True Assassin, and FZ Rider. Not necessarily in that order.

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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:55 pm

huh, i still have FA servants in limbo until i see more of them
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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:56 pm

*falls asleep*
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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:06 pm

I like their designs a lot, and they actually managed to catch my attention, unlike most of the other paper-thin characters. Well designed, all of them, but lacking in substance.

If I didn't include them, I guess I'd add False Assassin and maybe Gilgamesh.

Yes, don't get me wrong. Gil has become increasingly obnoxious with time, but I actually really liked him when I first watched the anime, and I still find him enjoyable in the VN. But his painfully obnoxious performance in Fate/Zero, along with his flanderization, has made me dislike him.

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PostSubject: Re: The Grail Games OOC XIV   Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:10 pm

fate/zero is his weakest performance
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