Anarchy Rising Book 2: A Hunted Wasteland

Very true, unfortunately.

*shrugs* I like to vy on the side of if i fall, like say i get injured, get really sick, or if i somehow become mentally disabled (concussion or some of the other crazy diseases out) I'd like to have the peace of mind that i will be taken care of, and as long as i am well, i don't mind a portion of my salary and what not going out to serve that cause for others.

I care about compassion and security more than i care about strength and fairness.

The chances of you getting into that condition are fairly rare, whereas the condition of needing money you don't have because it's being siphoned out of your paycheck is all too frequent. And that's great if you want to give your money away to help others; that's what charity is for. But it should be a choice, not a requirement.

I hold fairness above all else.

It's not something i feel should be left up to chance. I recognize the viewpoint of having it be optional. It's just my opinion that a balance should be found where enough tax money is spent on social security and welfare, but enough money stays in the pockets of the people to motivate them to work. I am also of the opinion that as technology makes our lives easier, this will be easier to do.

I understand, it's not an unusual point of view.

So we have a lounge for this right?

TheDarkestAnimeFan wrote:

So we have a lounge for this right?

Yeah, I've noticed that this has happened in OOC threads quite often where people get off subject. I thought the general sentiment was to go along with it rather than be the thread police, but I've got no problem with moving the discussion... though there really isn't anything left to say i don't think. Ofcourse That may just be because i got the last word in x3. Anyway, yeah it's off topic, I don't mind moving this to the lounge if people want to carry the convo.

That's why this thread is called 'Anarchy' obviously

Also, I'm tempted to just have Ember book it with Faust to lower my posting rate lol

I'm fine with the off topic discussion. Prisma gets two cookie,s Shayu gets negative two cookies.

And I have no problem with that game arrangement Shayu

Also basic medical needs in extreme cases are already met, that isn't the issue presented.

Also the tax system by definition is not fair as its a teired tax system so inherently it cannot be fair. Flat tax rate makes substantially more sense.

Finally welfare, unemployment, medical aid are all fantastic however under current structures they are broken abused and a money sink that will run out shortly. Our government was intentionally set up to move slowly, nothing wrong with that as most governments are. However it means with the current state of progression it is woefully outdated to be running most programs and has shown an inability to run even simple things effectively. Afterall when was the last tiem you went to a DMV and said wow, this place is super efficient.

Economies of scale. Lower income people need their money more for necessary things. Fixed cost, if you will.  A 'Fair' tax system would still be tiered, but not as badly as U.S.'s.

We wouldn't even need to tax as much if we didn't have so much pointless spending. You know, like millions of dollars in foreign aid to countries like China... the same country that owns most of our debt.

The best economic is to steal it from someone else. Do it like old times, just invade and pillage everything. Or like modern countries are doing right now, just push the debt to someone else, until it gets so big that only a war will fix it.

Prisma*Illya wrote:

We wouldn't even need to tax as much if we didn't have so much pointless spending. You know, like millions of dollars in foreign aid to countries like China... the same country that owns most of our debt.

Illya England has the largest percentage of Foreign aid at 0.7% of our GPD

0.7

so not only is your statement stupid, it's something that lead to people like Nigel Farage getting scarily close to government.

jorgiguel wrote:

The best economic is to steal it from someone else. Do it like old times, just invade and pillage everything. Or like modern countries are doing right now, just push the debt to someone else, until it gets so big that only a war will fix it.

the problem is that no one else has any either, it's all in the big business who start crying when you take it.

Leiv wrote:

I'm fine with the off topic discussion. Prisma gets two cookie,s Shayu gets negative two cookies.

And I have no problem with that game arrangement Shayu

Ok thanks for redistributing the wealth Leiv

The game is survival of the fittest. A game that it is, in my personal opinion, a game for savages and barbarians. I do not wish to partake, though I understand the sentiment that it's exciting for the world to potentially be yours if you work really hard and are really smart. I simply do not put fairness over security and compassion.

Motivation to work, and thus build a strong economy, is a matter of psychology. Of course the 'work or suffer' system is quite proficient at stimulating economic growth, whether that be a fascist state that threatens it's workers with the punishment of death, or simply a system that leaves those who do not work hard enough to starve. What the real challenge is, is finding a way to motivate your workers without a 'work or suffer' system.

jorgiguel wrote:

The best economic is to steal it from someone else. Do it like old times, just invade and pillage everything. Or like modern countries are doing right now, just push the debt to someone else, until it gets so big that only a war will fix it.

that's the thing, war won't fix it, all this debt is actually fictional, remember money by itself is a worthless scrap of paper(or whatever they're printed on). 90% of the current economical problems and crisis were created artificaly trough money tricks and it will only get worse as long as their is a hole market dedicated to making money out of money without actually producing anything tangible(talking about making money from playing exchange rates between different curency's and the like).

So as one creates money out of nothing they will need more actual paper bills to go around, more bills means a larger monetary mass which in turn means that money is worth less(aka inflation). Now what do you think is the effect it has on people? as the average joe sees that a dollars(or whatever currency) buying power decreases his natural instinct would be to gather more money but from where exactly will he get the extra money? reducing his costs?(can only reduce up to a certain point), get another job? (will he have the time or ability to find a new one, he's not alone after all), join in on the money schemeing? (won't help, will just renew and deepen the problem).

Basically the problem is that the world trend is to produce more artifical/virtual value(money,bail bonds, credits,etc) then actual realistic/tangible value(food,buildings,whatever). While the presence of money and similar instruments helps keep the economy going smoother, it quickly became distorted and out of sync, the speed of the tangible values growth way to slow to keep up with the artificial one.

Point is even if you pass the debt along from one country to the other like some sort of beach ball it won't help, even when the ball becomes to heavy and one crushes underneath it, a new game will start with the remaining ones. As long as the world trend is for wild and chaotic growth while the number of resources available is limited we will eventually crash and burn, the places to run and hide to are limited.

Silver90 wrote:

jorgiguel wrote:

The best economic is to steal it from someone else. Do it like old times, just invade and pillage everything. Or like modern countries are doing right now, just push the debt to someone else, until it gets so big that only a war will fix it.

that's the thing, war won't fix it, all this debt is actually fictional, remember money by itself is a worthless scrap of paper(or whatever they're printed on). 90% of the current economical problems and crisis were created artificaly trough money tricks and it will only get worse as long as their is a hole market dedicated to making money out of money without actually producing anything tangible(talking about making money from playing exchange rates between different curency's and the like).

So as one creates money out of nothing they will need more actual paper bills to go around, more bills means a larger monetary mass which in turn means that money is worth less(aka inflation). Now what do you think is the effect it has on people? as the average joe sees that a dollars(or whatever currency) buying power decreases his natural instinct would be to gather more money but from where exactly will he get the extra money? reducing his costs?(can only reduce up to a certain point), get another job? (will he have the time or ability to find a new one, he's not alone after all), join in on the money schemeing? (won't help, will just renew and deepen the problem).

Basically the problem is that the world trend is to produce more artifical/virtual value(money,bail bonds, credits,etc) then actual realistic/tangible value(food,buildings,whatever). While the presence of money and similar instruments helps keep the economy going smoother, it quickly became distorted and out of sync, the speed of the tangible values growth way to slow to keep up with the artificial one.

Point is even if you pass the debt along from one country to the other like some sort of beach ball it won't help, even when the ball becomes to heavy and one crushes underneath it, a new game will start with the remaining ones. As long as the world trend is for wild and chaotic growth while the number of resources available is limited we will eventually crash and burn, the places to run and hide to are limited.

Soooo, very true Silver.

Every now and again silver says something that makes me respect him.

It's a strange feeling

Silver90 wrote:

jorgiguel wrote:

The best economic is to steal it from someone else. Do it like old times, just invade and pillage everything. Or like modern countries are doing right now, just push the debt to someone else, until it gets so big that only a war will fix it.

that's the thing, war won't fix it, all this debt is actually fictional, remember money by itself is a worthless scrap of paper(or whatever they're printed on). 90% of the current economical problems and crisis were created artificaly trough money tricks and it will only get worse as long as their is a hole market dedicated to making money out of money without actually producing anything tangible(talking about making money from playing exchange rates between different curency's and the like).

So as one creates money out of nothing they will need more actual paper bills to go around, more bills means a larger monetary mass which in turn means that money is worth less(aka inflation). Now what do you think is the effect it has on people? as the average joe sees that a dollars(or whatever currency) buying power decreases his natural instinct would be to gather more money but from where exactly will he get the extra money? reducing his costs?(can only reduce up to a certain point), get another job? (will he have the time or ability to find a new one, he's not alone after all), join in on the money schemeing? (won't help, will just renew and deepen the problem).

Basically the problem is that the world trend is to produce more artifical/virtual value(money,bail bonds, credits,etc) then actual realistic/tangible value(food,buildings,whatever). While the presence of money and similar instruments helps keep the economy going smoother, it quickly became distorted and out of sync, the speed of the tangible values growth way to slow to keep up with the artificial one.

Point is even if you pass the debt along from one country to the other like some sort of beach ball it won't help, even when the ball becomes to heavy and one crushes underneath it, a new game will start with the remaining ones. As long as the world trend is for wild and chaotic growth while the number of resources available is limited we will eventually crash and burn, the places to run and hide to are limited.

well yeah, if all people when to the bank and extract money at the same time, there's wouldn't be enough physical money for even 1% of the population. that's how little physical money there exists.

i could even go as far as to say that all this crisis is fictional too. The reason there are so many unemployed ain't cause of a crisis or what not, it's cause there are WAY to many people for our current society to support. It also doesn't help that people are living way longer then they should, and thus making governments pay them for just sitting all day watching TV. People now a days are too pampered, their idea of no money is not being able to take on vacations, or the government not paying them for doing nothing, unemployeds don't count as they were excessive people who there wouldn't be any jobs in the first place, crisis or no crisis. Everytime I hear "20% of population without job, it's terrible!" I'll like "ain't that good? means 80% have jobs, there's also the fact that the population grew, etc..."

that's why only a war will fix this. Just burn everything and construct everything from the ground 0. Or the whole world realizes that communism is actually really awesome if done correctly, but people are too greedy for that.

right now we're like all the other societies that came before us, we hit the "golden age" but now the sun is burning us for getting too close.

socialism, not communism, is the one that's good on paper.

and the % would be higher then 1, banks are legally required to maintain a cash reserve of X% (varies by country) of their total deposits as to avoid situations like that.

There are people that are physically incapable of working (young,old,sick) and since we're not in the jungle we can't just dispose of the old and sick, something about moral values or crap like that :p

wouldn't bet on it, humanity has shown the remarkable ability of being able to repeat its past mistakes over and over again.

Anyway back to the rp, posted for some of my chars, need to wait for others to post for rest

So do I update danny or not? : o

Leiv/Darkest, can my 3rd character that I think is too hax but Shayu wants me to try to get approved be approved? O:

Why not just make him less hax. Then he'll get approved.

Prisma*Illya wrote:

Why not just make him less hax. Then he'll get approved.

I've already made him as "less hax" as I can without completely altering his powers >>

Why don't you post properly for the chars you already have instead, spirit? :x

Posted, I cannot wait to have Rho interact with other characters ^^ , this we'll be fun, especially since Jasmine seems to be in a sour mood. I think she will find though, that Rho is actually quite benevolent.

silver your romanian you can steal a whole economy.