Chat Thread 19: In the Beginning Was the Chat

I can't really offer suggestions without knowing what you already have. But I'll try.

Magician could replenish a Servant's mana.

The Tower could act as a one-shot defensive Noble Phantasm like Archer's Rho Aias in FSN.

The Sun could be used to see another Servants skills or NP.

The Fool could allow a class change (unlimited possibilities and all).

The World acts as a one-shot anti-World Noble Phantasm like EA.

well, here's what I have.
maybe that'll give you a better idea of what's missing.

The Hierophant - Temporarily grants the Master's Servant Divinity rank A.
The Twins - Temporarily allows the Master's Servant to split into two. Although each of the Servants retains the original's full stats and skills, only one can wield their Noble Phantasm at a time.
Strength - Temporarily grants the Master's Servant Strength rank EX.
The Hanged Man - Creates a temporary binding circle beneath a Servant in combat with the Master's Servant. For the duration of the spell, the Servant is unable to leave the confines of the circle.
Wheel of Fortune - Leverages deus ex machina to alter the situation of a battle, temporarily giving the Master's Servant the upper hand.
The Devil - Temporarily grants the Master's Servant Mad Enhancement rank A.
The Empress - Temporarily allows the Master's Servant to change classes, granting that Servant stat and skill ranks of the new class, equivalent (in total) to the Servant's original ranks.
The Emperor - Temporarily allows the Master's Servant to change classes, granting that Servant stat and skill ranks of the new class, equivalent (in total) to the Servant's original ranks.
The Chariot - Creates a circle beneath the Master that will transport the Master and all allies within it to a safe location.
The Death - A double-edged curse, which can only be canceled by the use of another Tarot Card. Either the Master's Servant or a Servant currently in combat with that Servant will die at the end of combat.
The High Priestess - Temporarily grants the Master's Servant Magic Resistance rank EX.
Judgment - Temporarily seals the use of Noble Phantasms by a Servant in combat with the Master's Servant.
Justice - Temporarily creates strong mental interference for a Servant in combat with the Master's Servant. The strength of this spell is determined by the cumulative difference in alignment of the two opposing Servants.
The Hermit - Creates a circle beneath a Servant in combat with the Master's Servant. Anything inside the circle is then banished from the Master's presence, reappearing in a neutral location.
Temperance - Temporarily grants the Master's Servant an unlimited mana supply.
The Star - Temporarily grants the Master's Servant Presence Detection rank A.
The Moon - Heals a fatal wound of the Master's Servant.

I would actually make Death the one to heal fatal wounds. It's a bit redundant since Hanged Man does pretty much the same thing. I can't see how else to Servants bound in the same space together will leave without killing one or the other anyway.

I would make the Moon give Presence Concealment, since it's all about illusions and distorted perceptions.

The Hanged Man doesn't bind two Servants, only one.

I could move the healing to The Star though, then I could move the Presence Detection to The Sun and still use The Moon for Presence Concealment.
That has potential.

Oh. When it said in combat with another, I assumed they would both be within the confines. I'm guessing the purpose of this is for escape?

I think I would make Chariot then more about summoning your Servant to you then if they're far away.

That works.

escape could be a use, but when I created it, what came to mind was "what if Assassin's Master got this card?"

you could bind the Servant in place, and unless the Master could make it to the circle, where their Servant is, they would be rather vulnerable.

Ah yes, that could make for a nail-biting scenario.

this still leaves me with The Tower, The Magician, and The World though. :x

The Tower is usually associated with something catastrophic. So, if there was one that produced a cataclysmic type event, this one would probably be it.

The Magician begs for me to give the Servant Magical Energy EX, but that's not very useful on anyone but Caster. So, it would be basically a dud card in the wrong hands.

The World is just so vague that I have no idea where to go with it.

Change Temperance to Endurance EX or grant Battle Continuation.

Then change Magician to unlimited mana supply or mana replenish.

Just save the World for a deus ex machine final battle trump card. Or maybe it only manifests once a Master has obtained the other cards, and this summons the Grail.

oh, I like that. : o

if The World summons the Grail, then I can make The Fool as one of the twenty one instead.
that's easier to work with.

Bam! Teamwork. *high fives*

Now read more of my book.

so, here's the final list:

I - The Magician - Temporarily grants the Master's Servant an unlimited mana supply.
II - The High Priestess - Temporarily grants the Master's Servant Magic Resistance rank EX.
III - The Empress - Temporarily allows the Master's Servant to change classes, granting that Servant stat and skill ranks of the new class, equivalent (in total) to the Servant's original ranks.
IV - The Emperor - Temporarily allows the Master's Servant to change classes, granting that Servant stat and skill ranks of the new class, equivalent (in total) to the Servant's original ranks.
V - The Hierophant - Temporarily grants the Master's Servant Divinity rank A.
VI - The Twins - Temporarily allows the Master's Servant to split into two. Although each of the Servants retains the original's full stats and skills, only one can wield their Noble Phantasm at a time.
VII - The Chariot - Creates a circle beneath the Master that will transport the Master and all allies within it to a safe location.
VIII - Justice - Temporarily creates strong mental interference for a Servant in combat with the Master's Servant. The strength of this spell is determined by the cumulative difference in alignment of the two opposing Servants.
IX - The Hermit - Creates a circle beneath a Servant in combat with the Master's Servant. Anything inside the circle is then banished from the Master's presence, reappearing in a neutral location.
X - Wheel of Fortune - Leverages deus ex machina to alter the situation of a battle, temporarily giving the Master's Servant the upper hand.
XI - Strength - Temporarily grants the Master's Servant Strength rank EX.
XII - The Hanged Man - Creates a temporary binding circle beneath a Servant in combat with the Master's Servant. For the duration of the spell, the Servant is unable to leave the confines of the circle.
XIII - Death - A double-edged curse, which can only be canceled by the use of another Tarot Card. Either the Master's Servant or a Servant currently in combat with that Servant will die at the end of combat.
XIV - Temperance - Temporarily grants the Master's Servant Endurance rank EX.
XV - The Devil - Temporarily grants the Master's Servant Mad Enhancement rank A.
XVI - The Tower - Temporarily grants the Master's Servant access to a single-shot Anti-Fortress Noble Phantasm.
XVII - The Star - Heals a fatal wound of the Master's Servant.
XVIII - The Moon - Temporarily grants the Master's Servant Presence Concealment rank A.
XIX - The Sun - Temporarily grants the Master's Servant Presence Detection rank A.
XX - Judgment - Temporarily seals the use of Noble Phantasms by a Servant in combat with the Master's Servant.
XXI - The World - Summons the Holy Grail. This card only appears when all other cards have either been used or have fallen into the same Master's possession. The Master who uses this card is the winner of the Grail War.
XXII - The Fool - Nullifies the effect of a single Tarot Card used on the Master's Servant or a Servant in combat with the Master's Servant.

Looks good to me. Let's have Jorg way in on it too.

You might want to make the Twins the Lovers again and have it create some mana transfer time.

I'm not judging them, i'm just going "what's the worst that can happen?"

Payne wrote:

I - The Magician - Temporarily grants the Master's Servant an unlimited mana supply.

Well caster could get this, or worse someone with an Anti-Army or above Noble Phantasm can suddenly spam it to his heart content.

Payne wrote:

II - The High Priestess - Temporarily grants the Master's Servant Magic Resistance rank EX.

Hey Caster, I heard you're useless again :V

Payne wrote:

III - The Empress - Temporarily allows the Master's Servant to change classes, granting that Servant stat and skill ranks of the new class, equivalent (in total) to the Servant's original ranks.

ok

Payne wrote:

IV - The Emperor - Temporarily allows the Master's Servant to change classes, granting that Servant stat and skill ranks of the new class, equivalent (in total) to the Servant's original ranks.

ok

Payne wrote:

V - The Hierophant - Temporarily grants the Master's Servant Divinity rank A.

Hmmm, I trying to think of situations where this is useful. It's not useless, Divity is a handy skill to have with the giant boost to the Luck stat it provides, but aside from that and very specific situations, it's mostly just there for cosmetics.

Payne wrote:

VI - The Twins - Temporarily allows the Master's Servant to split into two. Although each of the Servants retains the original's full stats and skills, only one can wield their Noble Phantasm at a time.

This is potentially game breaking

Payne wrote:

VII - The Chariot - Creates a circle beneath the Master that will transport the Master and all allies within it to a safe location.

teleport? sure, but does it need to be to a safe location? could you for example teleport to an enemy instead of away from them?

Payne wrote:

VIII - Justice - Temporarily creates strong mental interference for a Servant in combat with the Master's Servant. The strength of this spell is determined by the cumulative difference in alignment of the two opposing Servants.

This is good vs scouting, but nothing note worthy

Payne wrote:

IX - The Hermit - Creates a circle beneath a Servant in combat with the Master's Servant. Anything inside the circle is then banished from the Master's presence, reappearing in a neutral location.

"Servant you're annoying me." "So?" "Begone!" *puff*

Payne wrote:

X - Wheel of Fortune - Leverages deus ex machina to alter the situation of a battle, temporarily giving the Master's Servant the upper hand.

oh look, my Lancer version would be a natural counter to this :V

Payne wrote:

XI - Strength - Temporarily grants the Master's Servant Strength rank EX.

I'm just thinking to myself. What would happen if Caster or Assassin got this. The highest Strength was A+ and was from Hercules, and he was blowing away buildings without even hitting them. Rank EX is terrifying.

Payne wrote:

XII - The Hanged Man - Creates a temporary binding circle beneath a Servant in combat with the Master's Servant. For the duration of the spell, the Servant is unable to leave the confines of the circle.

I'm guessing this is to force either a dead match or a servant from running away from you?

Payne wrote:

XIII - Death - A double-edged curse, which can only be canceled by the use of another Tarot Card. Either the Master's Servant or a Servant currently in combat with that Servant will die at the end of combat.

The mechanics of this seem difficult to understand, but you said "what would happen if Assassin had this?" I say "What will happen if a Knight class uses this on Assassin?" "Oh you wanna run away? NO!"

Payne wrote:

XIV - Temperance - Temporarily grants the Master's Servant Endurance rank EX.

Well at least we know what Endurance EX looks like and how terrfying it can be used.

Payne wrote:

XV - The Devil - Temporarily grants the Master's Servant Mad Enhancement rank A.

This is surprisingly interesting, virtually it gives an upgrade to a servant. Obviously you would want this on a Saber or Lancer since they would be able to fight without major inhibitions.

Payne wrote:

XVI - The Tower - Temporarily grants the Master's Servant access to a single-shot Anti-Fortress Noble Phantasm.

How does this even work? :V

Payne wrote:

XVII - The Star - Heals a fatal wound of the Master's Servant.

"HEAL YOU *****!"

Payne wrote:

XVIII - The Moon - Temporarily grants the Master's Servant Presence Concealment rank A.

I'm just imagining Berserker with this sneaking behind you and then smashing you into a pancake

Payne wrote:

XX - Judgment - Temporarily seals the use of Noble Phantasms by a Servant in combat with the Master's Servant.

This is probably the most unfair card of all.

Payne wrote:

XXI - The World - Summons the Holy Grail. This card only appears when all other cards have either been used or have fallen into the same Master's possession. The Master who uses this card is the winner of the Grail War.

Ok

Payne wrote:

XXII - The Fool - Nullifies the effect of a single Tarot Card used on the Master's Servant or a Servant in combat with the Master's Servant.

*Uses The Fool on The World* Do I unlock a secret prize? :V

Some good points there. :0

Alright. So, I guess the first step is to set a better definition of "temporarily". I would say somewhere between 30 and 60 seconds is all "temporarily" would ever be. Should I be more specific for each individual card?

jorgiguel wrote:

I'm not judging them, i'm just going "what's the worst that can happen?"

Payne wrote:

I - The Magician - Temporarily grants the Master's Servant an unlimited mana supply.

Well caster could get this, or worse someone with an Anti-Army or above Noble Phantasm can suddenly spam it to his heart content.

true.

jorgiguel wrote:

Payne wrote:

II - The High Priestess - Temporarily grants the Master's Servant Magic Resistance rank EX.

Hey Caster, I heard you're useless again :V

oh, that just breaks my heart.

jorgiguel wrote:

Payne wrote:

III - The Empress - Temporarily allows the Master's Servant to change classes, granting that Servant stat and skill ranks of the new class, equivalent (in total) to the Servant's original ranks.

ok

I'll assume no issue with anything you say "ok" to.

jorgiguel wrote:

Payne wrote:

IV - The Emperor - Temporarily allows the Master's Servant to change classes, granting that Servant stat and skill ranks of the new class, equivalent (in total) to the Servant's original ranks.

ok

see above...

jorgiguel wrote:

Payne wrote:

V - The Hierophant - Temporarily grants the Master's Servant Divinity rank A.

Hmmm, I trying to think of situations where this is useful. It's not useless, Divity is a handy skill to have with the giant boost to the Luck stat it provides, but aside from that and very specific situations, it's mostly just there for cosmetics.

It seemed the most fitting for the card, but I'm not familiar with all of the powers. If you've got something better in mind, feel free to suggest it.

jorgiguel wrote:

Payne wrote:

VI - The Twins - Temporarily allows the Master's Servant to split into two. Although each of the Servants retains the original's full stats and skills, only one can wield their Noble Phantasm at a time.

This is potentially game breaking

Yeah, this one could be tricky.

jorgiguel wrote:

Payne wrote:

VII - The Chariot - Creates a circle beneath the Master that will transport the Master and all allies within it to a safe location.

teleport? sure, but does it need to be to a safe location? could you for example teleport to an enemy instead of away from them?

The intention was for this card to be a "get away from a 100% loss situation" button. I guess you could have it teleport you to the nearest Servant instead, but I wouldn't want to give it the capacity to do either one. So, to me, the original effect seemed the more useful of the two.

jorgiguel wrote:

Payne wrote:

VIII - Justice - Temporarily creates strong mental interference for a Servant in combat with the Master's Servant. The strength of this spell is determined by the cumulative difference in alignment of the two opposing Servants.

This is good vs scouting, but nothing note worthy

Again, I'm not overly familiar with the powers. I'd intended for this to be stronger than you're making it sound, something along the lines of causing mild confusion at the lowest power level and possibly a moment of insanity or terror at the highest level.

jorgiguel wrote:

Payne wrote:

IX - The Hermit - Creates a circle beneath a Servant in combat with the Master's Servant. Anything inside the circle is then banished from the Master's presence, reappearing in a neutral location.

"Servant you're annoying me." "So?" "Begone!" *puff*

Well, that's how it would work if you were being assaulted by a Servant and wanted to get away, but note that the spell doesn't also banish that Servant's Master. So, if someone who preferred to kill the Masters instead were to have it...

jorgiguel wrote:

Payne wrote:

X - Wheel of Fortune - Leverages deus ex machina to alter the situation of a battle, temporarily giving the Master's Servant the upper hand.

oh look, my Lancer version would be a natural counter to this :V

lol.

jorgiguel wrote:

Payne wrote:

XI - Strength - Temporarily grants the Master's Servant Strength rank EX.

I'm just thinking to myself. What would happen if Caster or Assassin got this. The highest Strength was A+ and was from Hercules, and he was blowing away buildings without even hitting them. Rank EX is terrifying.

Let them live in fear.

jorgiguel wrote:

Payne wrote:

XII - The Hanged Man - Creates a temporary binding circle beneath a Servant in combat with the Master's Servant. For the duration of the spell, the Servant is unable to leave the confines of the circle.

I'm guessing this is to force either a dead match or a servant from running away from you?

No, that would be what Death does. You've gotten my description of the two mixed up. This simply roots a single Servant in place for the duration. That Servant can still defend against attacks, it just can't leave the circle.

jorgiguel wrote:

Payne wrote:

XIII - Death - A double-edged curse, which can only be canceled by the use of another Tarot Card. Either the Master's Servant or a Servant currently in combat with that Servant will die at the end of combat.

The mechanics of this seem difficult to understand, but you said "what would happen if Assassin had this?" I say "What will happen if a Knight class uses this on Assassin?" "Oh you wanna run away? NO!"

Kinda, yeah. This card basically says "no one leaves until someone dies", unless another card like The Hermit or The Chariot is used as an escape mechanism.

jorgiguel wrote:

Payne wrote:

XIV - Temperance - Temporarily grants the Master's Servant Endurance rank EX.

Well at least we know what Endurance EX looks like and how terrfying it can be used.

Again, let them live in fear...

jorgiguel wrote:

Payne wrote:

XV - The Devil - Temporarily grants the Master's Servant Mad Enhancement rank A.

This is surprisingly interesting, virtually it gives an upgrade to a servant. Obviously you would want this on a Saber or Lancer since they would be able to fight without major inhibitions.

I'm assuming this is okay then.

jorgiguel wrote:

Payne wrote:

XVI - The Tower - Temporarily grants the Master's Servant access to a single-shot Anti-Fortress Noble Phantasm.

How does this even work? :V

Well, this is the card I'm the least impressed with actually. Given the nature of The Tower in the Tarot Spread, it seemed like a fitting power though. The best way to describe what I had in mind would be that the Servant who it's used on can call down a lightning storm that can decimate a space the size of a fortress.

jorgiguel wrote:

Payne wrote:

XVII - The Star - Heals a fatal wound of the Master's Servant.

"HEAL YOU *****!"

Yup.

jorgiguel wrote:

Payne wrote:

XVIII - The Moon - Temporarily grants the Master's Servant Presence Concealment rank A.

I'm just imagining Berserker with this sneaking behind you and then smashing you into a pancake

jorgiguel wrote:

Payne wrote:

XX - Judgment - Temporarily seals the use of Noble Phantasms by a Servant in combat with the Master's Servant.

This is probably the most unfair card of all.

It's supposed to be unfair. Life isn't fair.

jorgiguel wrote:

Payne wrote:

XXI - The World - Summons the Holy Grail. This card only appears when all other cards have either been used or have fallen into the same Master's possession. The Master who uses this card is the winner of the Grail War.

Ok

I should probably put somewhere that the card appears in the possession of the person holding all the remaining cards...

jorgiguel wrote:

Payne wrote:

XXII - The Fool - Nullifies the effect of a single Tarot Card used on the Master's Servant or a Servant in combat with the Master's Servant.

*Uses The Fool on The World* Do I unlock a secret prize? :V

No. Once The World is used, the War is over, and all the other Cards disappear.

to much work to quote everything, so

I&II - Nothing to say

III&IV - As I said I wasn't judging, just writting my reactions, these two didn't cause me any reaction because Illya already spoke of cards that did this.

V - It depends, if there are certain Servants whose Noble Phantasm is luck based, then this card becomes a trump card against them. Hmmm let me put it in other words. If there's a Servant with a Noble Phantasm that goes "It never misses" or "It always hits" then this Card counters that Noble Phantasm. That's kinda how Divinity works to some degree.

VI&VII - Nothing to say

VIII - Oh, I missunderstood what was written, I thought it prevented Servant and Master from comunicating telepathely. Anyway, yeah this card is more powerful than I thought, although there are some skills that Servants can have that can nulify this Card, like Bravery or Mental Polution.

IX&X&XI&XII&XIII&XIV&XV - Nothing to say

XVI - Perharps make this the only offensive card, like a card that heavily wounds a Servant.

XVII&XVIII&XX&XXI&XXII - Nothing to say

Maybe the Tower can erect a bounded field instead.

that's a possibility. : o
what would it do though?

Hmm. Dunno. Maybe increase all stats by 1, but when it comes down, stats are reduced by 1.

the tower, grant servant either EX or F rank Luck

the tower is generally associated with some kind of calamity or omen though.
it would make more sense for it to be a debuff than a buff.

tarots are usually the opposite when upside down...but making double effects for all of them is to much of a pain...


also, i thought Chariot is more associated with "victory rush" than "running away" dont you

Well, the buff would be the strength of the tower, with the debuff being the calamity that breaks it.

Yes, the Chariot is actually more about physical strength while the Strength is about strength of spirit.