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 Chat Thread 11: Son of a Dannytheman

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PostSubject: Re: Chat Thread 11: Son of a Dannytheman   Sun Oct 05, 2014 7:27 pm

i would tell you to try magic if there was any free way to do that, but there isnt
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Prisma*Illya
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PostSubject: Re: Chat Thread 11: Son of a Dannytheman   Sun Oct 05, 2014 7:31 pm

Meh.

Anyway, when's the next episode of UBW come out? :0 I wish they would do something new and do the whole plot from Rin's POV.

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PostSubject: Re: Chat Thread 11: Son of a Dannytheman   Sun Oct 05, 2014 7:32 pm

next saturday, it will also be 45 minute long
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PostSubject: Re: Chat Thread 11: Son of a Dannytheman   Sun Oct 05, 2014 7:41 pm

Oh okay. :0

You know, I feel like Shirou does get an unnecessarily bad rap, cause he really is a rather complex character. He's just not engaging like Rin because between:

"I nearly died, was saved by someone and idolized them, and internalized their wish as my own cause I had no true sense of self, resulting in disillusionment when reality infringes on my ideal."'

And

"I was born into a family with expectations that have made it difficult for me to feel like everyone else or rely on others, and feel a strain between what I'm supposed to be and who I really am."

Which is more relatable? Plus, Rin is just more entertaining. :P

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PostSubject: Re: Chat Thread 11: Son of a Dannytheman   Sun Oct 05, 2014 7:47 pm

Prisma*Illya wrote:
Oh okay. :0

You know, I feel like Shirou does get an unnecessarily bad rap, cause he really is a rather complex character. He's just not engaging like Rin because between:

"I nearly died, was saved by someone and idolized them, and internalized their wish as my own cause I had no true sense of self, resulting in disillusionment when reality infringes on my ideal."'

And

"I was born into a family with expectations that have made it difficult for me to feel like everyone else or rely on others, and feel a strain between what I'm supposed to be and who I really am."

Which is more relatable? Plus, Rin is just more entertaining. :P

i agree with you on that, i never said that shirou was the most relatable, however it just pisses me off when people just go "shirou is dumb, shirou is sexist, shirou is pacifist." just cause of a horrible adaptation when in reality Shirou is the complete opposite.

and i put Shirou as a more twisted person than Kiritsugu really, no the in the twisted bad person type, but rather simply being more broken
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PostSubject: Re: Chat Thread 11: Son of a Dannytheman   Sun Oct 05, 2014 7:57 pm

Well, no, that's not the adaption's fault at all. All that same "material" is there in the VN and any other adaptions. People just fail to understand his motivations.

Shirou doesn't want Saber to fight, and he states that she shouldn't fight as a woman. That's not because he thinks women are weak and incapable. He even acknowledges Saber is vastly superior as a fighter. But his instinct of wanting to protect supersedes any logic that, as the better fighter, he should leave it to her.

And clearly he's not a pacifict, given that he and Saber kill almost all the characters in the VN. It's just a last resort for him. And hey, shouldn't it be? If you can avoid killing people, even in dire situations, you should. It's just that he sometimes sticks with this approach even when people clearly are irredeemable. Take Archer vs Kuzuki (or the one-sided slaughter, more accurately). He wants to stop it, even though Kuzuki is clearly a dangerous sociopath who just tried to kill him five minutes ago.

He's not dumb or weak. He just lets his emotions bypass his logic (which is there, cause he usually admits what the smart thing to do would be, but just goes and does the opposite).

Oh, he definitely is more broken.

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PostSubject: Re: Chat Thread 11: Son of a Dannytheman   Sun Oct 05, 2014 8:02 pm

no illya allot of his character was actually cut out and replaced with more "SAIBA!" than in the actualy vn, the anime really screwed him up. this should be even more obvious now that you saw ep 0 and saw more character from rin and archer than in the whole previous anime. DEEN version was really just a Saber bait show, i think only Saber was shown correctly in it, and even then will see in the next episodes if she'll have more personality than before
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PostSubject: Re: Chat Thread 11: Son of a Dannytheman   Sun Oct 05, 2014 8:09 pm

I dunno, Jorg, I think the Fate route had quite a bit of SAIBA in it. Sure, the anime made him less complex, but that was because it only showed his "Fate" persona which IS less complex. You don't get the complete Shirou journey without fully exploring all three routes.

And the anime, you recall, did not touch on the prologue. That is obviously going to have more Rin an Archer because it's from their point of view. The UBW route is about them as well, so it's not really fair to compare that to the DEEN adaptation of the Fate route, which even in the VN had little Archer in it.

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PostSubject: Re: Chat Thread 11: Son of a Dannytheman   Sun Oct 05, 2014 8:13 pm

illya you can't defend something of not beeing bad because they didnt do the same way. that's like defending someone for using the wrong equasion on a problem. the fact of the matter is, Ufo is showing not only how it should have been done, but how bad DEEN ****ed it up. because so far this episode was 99% faithfull to the vn, the DEEN version? not even close
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PostSubject: Re: Chat Thread 11: Son of a Dannytheman   Sun Oct 05, 2014 8:24 pm

No, I'm saying you're comparing apples to oranges. DEEN is a Fate route with no Rin-centric prologue. Ufo is a UBW Rin-centric route with a Rin-centric prologue. OF COURSE it's going to show Rin and Archer more and characterize them better. Their source makes that a given.

I think the reality here is that you have an ungodly hatred for DEEN's adaption that isn't really warranted. Did they adapt it well? Not as well as they could have, certainly. Ufo is obviously doing a much better job, just like they did with Fate/Zero. But honestly, most of the complaints people have come directly from the source material. DEEN Shirou is pretty much like Fate Shirou. The issues with DEEN's is really just that, while I appreciate their attempts to get every Servant screen time, they kind of miss out on some of the depth. And sure, the dialogue and explanations aren't adapted that well, but it's not to such a degree that the hate it gets is warranted.

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PostSubject: Re: Chat Thread 11: Son of a Dannytheman   Sun Oct 05, 2014 8:33 pm

Speaking of which, the new chat thread is up. Enjoy!

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